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February 06, 2007


Eric Cooper

Perfect, many thanks Cat!!


Well that sure says it all. I just wish I could of read this last Feb. when I became an Arbot. But I'm out of the orange fog now.


Wish my sis and I had read also. Thanks CAT,
Eric, and most recently J.

Lady Swisse, Viscountess DeePore

Eloquent and True, J. Excellent portrayal of this opportunity.

Paula Wiseman

I find it sad that you clearly did not get enough education about MLM and Networkmarketing to really know what you are talking about. Yes some of your stats will be true, but the fact is that no one can do any job with out work. And those that have stamina and want to help others will and have done well with Arbonne. I know many of them and I am in a state MA, that is very poplulated and I would say at least 50% of the people I talk to have never even heard of Arbonne and that is not saturation. In this state people do want to know how to take care of themselves and Arbonne clearly has an edge with their technology etc. Do you have any real solid facts about problems their products have caused? YOu are only going on data of people that did not have the education to know that any job and business is work and has difficult times and you must do the hard stuff to keep moving up. Just because people drop out does not mean the company is no good and it is a scam...


Paula, I am not sure that you have read or done your homework on this site alone. If you had, you would ralize the reason that most people here dropped out -- that it was about ethics, not lack of willingness to work. (For those of you that have already read that statement in my posts numerous times, forgive me.) There are solid facts available here and through other resources about the products and the business model.

It is fortunate that you are in an area that is not saturated. In many other geographic areas, this is a big problem. Saturation does not always correlate with population density; there are two separate factors.

I have to sharply disagree with you about data provided by people "that did not have the education to know that any job and business is work...". This statement is 100% false in my case, and also in the case of others. I do have a solid education from accredited universities. And I know plenty about work ... hard work.

My education about MLMs is also not lacking. I've read the books -- pro and con, studied the history of it, current trends, companies currently using it, economics, etc. Clearly people can profit in MLMs and have. However it is usually only a very small percentage that profit measurably in MLMs, and in many cases through unethical means and false presentations.

Be careful about your assumptions. Your last two sentences hint of a belief that someone who is not pro-Arbonne (or MLM) is just a poor simpleton, unenlighted, who got lazy and threw in the towel. This is classic Arbot/MLM mantra, and people involved in an MLM must tell themselves this repeatedly to stay convinced that they will make it to the top.

It's just that -- a mantra. It is not a valid way to nullify facts and figures brought forth from valid sources, education, and experience.


Sorry for the few typos above ... I hit the post instead of the preview.

Still involved

I want to share with you a way of life that many people share, including many of us "Arbots". It's nice to know that this didn't come from anyone connected with our company, yet many from Arbonne follow these principals. (and before anyone else asks- I've only know good people in this business). The self-help DVD "The Secret" was on Oprah today. I can't help but think this won't be a secret much longer. LOL.

"Rhonda defines The Secret as the law of attraction, which is the principle that "like attracts like." Rhonda calls it "the most powerful law in the universe," and says it is working all the time. "What we do is we attract into our lives the things we want, and that is based on what we're thinking and feeling," Rhonda says. The principle explains that we create our own circumstances by the choices we make in life. And the choices we make are fueled by our thoughts—which means our thoughts are the most powerful things we have here on earth."

And by the way, there might be less than 1% of people who make it to NVP, but that translates into over 400 individuals who are making the published monthly income of over $30,000 a month. And over 2000 that make the RVP income of $6600. (you can view this in the ReSults presentation on the website) I don't know about you, but I am willing to work hard to be able to acheive that type of success. And a thought about saturation -why is it that Clinique is sold in all the anchor stores at any major mall? And you can buy L'Oreal at Walgreen's, Rite Aid, WalMart, K-mart and Target? I'm thinking the more places that are selling it, the more customers that can purchase it, the more business for the company and the more $ in the pockets on the CEO. At least with Arbonne, if 50% know about us, there are still 50% who don't. If we can find them, that helps me as well as Arbonne. The job is finding them and that's half the fun of selling. And then there are always new product introductions to talk about too. That's the entire purpose of the Auto Show, to get people to trade in a perfectly good car for something new and better. How many people do you know that don't have a car? Now that's a good example of saturation.


The Secret is a powerful presentation that can be applied to anything in our business or personal lives. I'm glad you've only worked with good people in Arbonne. Wish we could all say that.

Regarding compensation, please review your facts. There are not 400 NVPs making $30,000 per month. That is in fact an average. There are some NVPs who make several times that amount because they have been in it for so long, (Donna Johnson, for example), and there there are numerous NVPs who do not gross even 1/3 of that. And after purchases, meetings, promotions, taxes, etc., they are netting about half their gross pay. This is fact -- I've seen it/heard it straight from the NVP's. Also, most of those 400 NVPs are relatively new (achieved it in the last 2 years), and you don't get to NVP one day and automatically make $30K a month. Same is true for RVP; the $6600 is an average. It is not what every RVP makes, nor is it close to what they net.

The income part of the Arbonne presentation can be quite deceiving -- though it is based on facts and figures, most people that see it don't realize that the income RANGE of pay in each promo level is very broad. Their actual checks may be much smaller than the reported "average" depending on volume and how their downlines / legs are structured.

People should know that MLM compensation is complex, and the averages are not an accurate figure of what they should expect at any given level.

Eric Cooper

And even if there are 400 NVP's making $30,000 per month,J and Still Involved, that is only 400 people out of 1,200,000 people who actually made it to that income level. That is, needless to say, an extremely small amount of people living the life of their dreams.

Still involved

Dear J,
Thank you for the clarification. You are right, they are averages. I just happen to know a few that make well over the $30,000 and they have been in the business 13 years, 10 years, 4 years and 3 years. As for RVP's, mine is well above the average and she's been there 18 months. I do agree that you don't just get there and start making the big cash - but you can. I can't figure out why you are so upset about gross vs net. When you go on a job interview, gross income is what's discussed. They never give you your salary adjusted for taxes and SS. As for expenses, a home based business needs them to offset their taxes. I found that out in my other home-base business.

And Eric, I think you know that of the 1,200,000 registered consultants, many many are just wholesale buyers with no intent to build a business. We have no way of knowing exactly how many actually are trying. If we did, I think the % would be better.And if you check on the web, fewer than 2 percent of Americans earn more than $250,000 a year and only the top 0.4 percent earn more than $500000 per year. I also believe that by following "The Secret" , living the "life of my dreams" has to do with many more things than just money. When I do make loads of money, from multiple streams of income (from "the secret") and I have taken care of my family, I will use it to bring good things to others. Isn't that what it's all about?

Arbonne Free!

Still Involved,

Of course, that is what most people want--to make enough money to really make a difference. The problem is when you choose to involve yourself with something that isn't ethical and then justify that action by saying I will eventually "do good" with the money I make.

If you truly feel like you are doing what you are meant to do, and your actions are totally in line with your ethics and values, then more power to you. I happen to think that "The Secret" is about more than making lots of money. It's about doing what you love. I truly believe that when you find your passion and pursue it, you will attract everything you want.

Despite what many people think, the Law of Attraction was not created for or by people in MLMs. You can live the life of your dreams without involving yourself in this kind of business.

Still involved

Dear Arbonne Free,
You are so correct! The Secret is about more than just making money - I agree (see my post above yours) I don't recall reading anywhere that the Law Of Attraction was created for or by people in MLM. I do think that people in networking of any type(BNI groups, Chamber of Commerece, etc) can learn by using the Law of Attraction. As for the ethics part, we all need to make that decision for ourselves in how we conduct our business, regardless of how or where we earn an income. Finally, I agree with the second sentence of your first paragraph but I disagree that it pertains to me. Just my opinion and everyone is entitled to their opinion Thanks for sharing yours.


If you guys haven't checked out the wahm site lately you should. I just did (for a laugh) and this woman wants to know the difference between arbonne and Mary Kay. She wanted the women on there to act as though they were recruiting her. You could see the saliva flowing! And the claims!
"Our products are all natural!" "We have a $29 start up cost!" "No inventory!"
Give me a break. If only this poor woman knows what she's opening the door to....


Interesting article here... and if you have ANY qualms about what you or someone in your line is doing... kindof a shock.


Still involved

That puts a whole new meaning to the tv ad phrase "Ancient Chinese Secret" - doesn't it?

Eric Cooper

Still Involved, you are showing your age! :) LOL...that ad for Calgon must have been about 35 years ago!


glad to see things are still alive and kicking over here LOL

hey - "The Secret" is a bunch of metaphysical New Age claptrap. Absolutely meaningless. People need to get their heads out of Oprah's ass. If Oprah did a show on Scientology (or "How to eat shit to live a long life") would that be enough validation for y'all to join the program?

Anyway, MLM sucks. Sorry for the drive-by posting, Cat, been so busy lately. Love ya!

Eric Cooper

Oh puhleese!!! Don't Say "Love Ya!" That's Rita D's line! LOL. Glad to see you again PC and I agree about Oprah, she is turning into a cult, whether Oprah herself realizes it or not.

I have read through several of these comments and have posted comments myself when necessary.

Bottom line is this; you do have an abundant amount of Consultants that are unethically doing business. And yes, Arbonne has looked away for a very long time, but because of websites like this and others like it, they can no longer look away and then ask their Consultants to do the same. If you have decided to venture into Network marketing you do have an obligation to look at both sides of the company and opportunity. You will be inviting people to join you and you should know everything that you can about the company you are about to get involved with.

The thing is, all companies will have pros and cons and whether you like it or not all Network Marketing Companies will have the lowest of people involved in them. I believe this is why companies like Amway could not make it. People will take advantage of the plan because of the amount of money you can make, so people who are bottom feeders will eventually make their way into Arbonne and will eventually start sucking people dry and then they move on because there is no staying power in that, eventually it will implode.

Yes, you have RVP’s and NVP’s that have gotten where they are because of this kind of behavior, they are now starting to lose their Regions and Nations and not because Arbonne is discovering this type of behavior and pulling them out, it is because they are not able to maintain their Regions or Nations because they have screwed people over and they are no longer doing the business. The satisfaction is that they will be stuck with a Mercedes payment that they probably will not be able to make therefore having to sell it or have it repossessed. Poetic Justice isn’t it? I am not even sure if any of them actually sold any products people outside of doing the business.

I do believe that Arbonne is not doing a good job of putting these people out, but they are starting. I have personally turned in some people who were advertising on the web…I didn’t care that they were advertising even though it is against policy, it was what they were saying that appalled me. It was exactly what you are saying here and Arbonne did drop the hammer on them and they are no longer doing what they were doing. It took almost a month for them to do this, but they did do it and then they sent me an email letting me know that this won’t be tolerated and thank you for bringing it to their attention. If more and more people started taking action against these people the faster Arbonne would start putting an end to it.

I have learned a lot from this site and I am grateful that I did come here a couple of months ago. It has been very enlightening and it did make me pause and look around. I am very confident in my downline and upline, but with more and more people signing on that I don't even know or are even aware of it will get harder and harder to control.

To be proactive, I have set up conference calls with my team to discuss this very thing. I have also drafted an ethics contract that they must sign and for every person that comes on board our team. I am trying to be proactive in this area; I am doing everything in my power to make sure that these kinds of things do not happen on my team.

I will probably get some backlash for saying this, but I can honestly tell you that we absolutely do not tell people that they have to invest a certain amount to start their business, besides of course the $29. I actually tell them that they can start their business with $29 and that is it, but you can also start with some product to either demo out or to have for your classes etc. This opportunity is about building a network of consumers that purchase product for their homes each month, it's not about how many people you find to sign up. People who are doing that are stupid because one it is completely unethical but two, there is no staying power in that at all. We teach people to redirect their money that they already are spending on products each month. These are not just business builders I am talking about; it is the wholesale shopper that I am concentrating on. I did not sign up a bunch of wholesale shoppers to have them purchase one thing for the entire year, I service these people, I send monthly newsletters, I call them, I send them Birthday cards, I make sure they know who I am and I listen to their needs.

The products do give you results, but there are those who cannot use some of them, just like there are those that cannot use Estee Lauder or Mary Kay or target brand. I have been fortunate enough to be able to use all the products so far but one, the new mascara. I do have an allergy to it, but I have an allergy to a lot of other ones too. I didn’t have an allergy to their old mascara though. I liked the old one better to by the way.

My daughter has terrible eczema and I have tried several things on her that have not worked, I used the ABC line on her and within just a few days her skin looked amazing, she has never gone without bumps on her legs, arms and stomach. She is very self conscious about it, the baby line did work for her and now she has clear skin and couldn’t be happier. She is only 7, but she is determined not to forget to put her lotion on in the morning and evening, it is amazing to me. You cannot put a price on that, she's happy, I am happy and I would be purchasing these products every month whether I was doing a business or not.

I have an overwhelming amount of wholesale shoppers that purchase products each and every month because of similar results that they or a family member have experienced. They use their own consultant Id online and are shopping and redirecting money that they were going to use on similar products that were not giving them the results that Arbonne does. So instead of buying an over the counter product for eczema that barely works, I spent the same money that I have budgeted for her eczema to purchase the Arbonne product that actually does work. This is how I maintain my Area and will maintain my Region. With two almost 3 areas direct to me, it is crucial that I build my business this way. I do it with a network of consumers not a network of distributors. This is how I was trained and this is how I train my team and so on.

Just so you know, I was a wholesale shopper first and I was the one that approached my sponsor (and new RVP) who was also was a wholesale shopper. In fact every single person in my line including Christy Dreiling was a wholesale shopper first. I never thought of that before, but it’s true and that is probably why we have such a strong team that has a solid foundation. You know, that might be a great question for those who are thinking about getting involved with Arbonne, ask how their upline got involved. I recently did up a team resume for people who are coming on board my team, it is very interesting and I would encourage teams to do that.

I get what you are saying and you are right, but what I don't get is that you are not willing to bend the other way and see that there are those who are doing this the right way and we are happy about it. If at the end of the day I do not make it to a NVP, it doesn't matter to me because you cannot put a price on the personal development or the relationships that I have formed because of Arbonne. I would not have begun to fill that empty space that I have been walking around with my entire life; it is about self discovery and finding what you are made of. I suffer from Adult ADD in a major way; I needed Arbonne more than it needed me on so many levels. Not everybody is doing this for money, some of us are doing this for reasons that money cannot solve.

I want everybody to know that this is very difficult, that is why only 2% make it. I am fortunate to be on a team that is the top 2% because every single person in my line directly above me is either a RVP or NVP and I am in qualification for RVP right now. They have set the bar high for us, nobody in my direct line has quit and these women are the best of the best and they would not and do not tolerate this new kind of Arbonne person.

Let me stress, it is not important that they all have their cars, it is important that they did not quit and that they have held themselves to a higher standard. They all did not do this overnight; they spent many hours away from their families to achieve their dreams. We have old schoolers like ENVP Christy Dreiling who started with $29 and with her success has written a children's book (that I just read to my daughter’s class) and sent over 200 of them down to Oprah's new school in South Africa. If you are interested in the book it is called “Holes in My Socks.” We have a team that devotes our time to women's shelters and we truly do give back in ways that we could not without knowing each other and having the success through Arbonne. I only tell you this because I am proud of all of them.

I know my comments were long and drawn out, but I just needed to say these things, I hope they don’t fall on deaf ears. I encourage you to be fair when somebody posts here with their success in Arbonne and not attack them and call them names. Educate them and help them understand that there are people who can bring down their business if they do not keep their eyes wide open because even if it is not happening in their downline currently it only takes that one person to tear it down, just like it can take that one person who can help you get to your goals.

I appreciate the many valid points that have been posted here and I am grateful that I came here so that I am fully aware of what is going on.

The last thing I have to say is that even though you all make many valid points and speak many truths, you do not always get it right. I encourage you to correct the things that are not true or could be misleading. I now fact find before I speak and I have you to thank for that. Let’s make sure we all have our facts straight before we confuse people even more. If anybody has any questions for me about Arbonne or isn't sure about something that they have heard please feel free to ask me. I will make sure that I give you accurate information and if I don't know the answer, I will try and find out for you or just simply tell you that I don’t know.

Thank you for your time and please, please be nicer to people when they come here because you are trying to help people not tear them down, correct? Again, I apologize for lengthy comments, hopefully you didn’t see it as a "epitaph".

Arbonne Consultant

Eric Cooper

Arbonne Consultant,
Thank you for your post. You set a very good example for others to follow and I hope that many other consultants will see your good example and follow it. You also did not come on here and immediately use insulting language toward those of us who have had disagreements with the company for whatever reason, and that was refreshing.

Thanks Again and best of luck in your Arbonne business.


So if we do believe we have or have had an unethical upline, how do you propose we send this to Arbonne. I know my sister and I were both sucked into spending 2500++++. Where does it end, and if we were suckered who do we talk to?

Arbonne consultant.

That last question was sent to you. Oh by the way, what do you think I should do with all the sun stuff, that thankfully has an experation date on it? Also this could be another post. Have any of you out there opened up a nite cream or day cream from your 2500 buy. They stink.
I would not sell them to the dog next door.

Still Involved

Dear Arbonne Consultant,
Thank you for your post. I too have learned much from the comments and conversations on this site.

New to Arbonne

To Arbonne Consultant.....Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Honest, direct and not full of fluff. I too, suffer from Adult ADD and it has caused me some major heartache and I do not take meds for it, just deal with it.

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