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November 02, 2006



That so cracked me up. Did you register? Maybe this is what Scipio was researching for. Curious as to what they find out about Arbonne. I skimmed thru tonite so I will read in better detail tomorrow, but I was laughing outloud.


Yeah, I thought it was pretty funny too as well as a bit creepy. LOL!! I'll let you know if I register!

Fighting Fatigue

Arbonne has the 90% buyback, the same as Mary Kay, if a consultant wants to get out - correct? Can anyone tell me what form needs to be completed to send back product?


another way to take advantage of people. criminal if you ask me.


Definitely criminal. I'm curious about who IS signing up. Who is the target market here? Anyone should be offended to be approached by anyone to join up into this program.

Natasha Wells

Hi Cat. I didn't read all your info becasue you have a lot to read through. I will keep it in my favorites though. I wanted to ask you if you have checked out the website of www.ewg.org? This stands for the environmental working group that is working on the FDA to approve all perosnal care products. Right now the FDA doesn not approve anything that is sold on our shelfs today or through Direct marketing companies. It is ture that Europe has a higher standard of approval for what is being used in thier persoal care products and the EWG is trying to get the US to follow Europe exanple. This is important that Arbonne is formulated in Europe. The US does not have funding to examine persoanl care, we have to rely on the companies word. Same thing with the vitamins. Everyone should be encouraged to learn the ingredients. So far I have researched the Estee Lauder Co. which owns about every product in the dept store and just aquired Aveda (salon sold). Also I looked into Kinearse to Avon to Mary Kay, Dermalogica to Lorel' and Nutrogena. You might be interested to learn that Arbonne is the only company that does post ingredients on their personal website and in comparing the RE9 antiaging day moistuerizer with the antiaging moisterizers from companies listed above that Arbonne and Aveda is rated on a scale of 0-5, 5 being the highest of having the better ingredients of less cancer causeing toxic raw ingredients. The other companies where about 3.5 - 4.7. Over time I am using Arbonee becaue it is less expensive than Aveda, effetive and better for me. Althought Aveda may change soon becaue of Estee Lauder now owning them. I have had a problem one time with open contianers upon delivery with my travel pack and they just sent me new one. Also I lost 12 pounds in 5 weeks by using the Figure 8 line. Also my downline is not paying me Arbonne is.
Thanks for your info!

Natasha Wells

Some how my score is not there in my sentence. For Aveda and Arbonne the rate was 2.5 out of 0-5 and 5 being the highest of having cancer causing raw ingredients in thier products. The other companies I checked where 3.5 - 4.7.


Hi all...sorry you guys had to see the site in it's current state. I am the first to admit that is terrible, but I can assure you that we are doing everything we can to get us in a position to control the search engines. :)

In any case, I haven't updated the site for about 3 months (for various reasons) but I thought you should know we have decided not to pursue Arbonne and are simply going to stick with Isagenix for now. After we have taken care of business in that category, we will move on to something else. Any ideas?

Also, as you must have noticed you can't register just yet. Our database is just about completed and when it is everything will be ready to rock. There is also going to be a public forum that will allow people to discuss anything/everything they want in regards to "network marketing/mlm".

Overall, what do you all think of the concept?

The Founder - Symroi.


FYI: The target market consists of 2 types of people. The first are those that are interested in joining an MLM but don't know how to sell/don't know enough people/don't have time to work it correctly. The other group are the "professionals" that simply want an added boost to their downline. There are no fees for registering the site. The only costs are the "opportunity's" membership fees. Our concept is that the website will bring people into our downline(s). When that happens, if you are a member of Symroi and are in our downline, every person that signs up on the website will go towards building your downline...as well as ours. That is why we aren't charging $$$ at this point. Truly, this is an experiment for me more than anything else. That is why I haven't finished the site yet, since it is more of a "pet project" than anything else right now. Unfortunately I've got a real job to attend to that takes up most of my time.
Out of curiosity, why are some of you bothered by the site? I really want to know so we can make the necessary adjustments to make interested parties as comfortable as possible with what we are trying to do.

The Founder - Symroi

Lady Swisse, Viscountess DeePore


Because what you are doing is called a PYRAMID SCAM.


Lady Swisse,

I think there is a bit of confusion regarding what Symroi is planning to offer...but please, correct me if I am wrong.

All we are going to do is help individuals build their own downlines. That's it. We aren't even going to charge for it as we will benefit from the increase in our downline as well.
Our stance is this, if someone is going to sign up with Isagenix (or whatever MLM/Network Marketing/Pyramid Scheme Symroi is involved with) then it only makes sense that they would want to be apart of our team.
We add people directly underneath them in their downline. They even get the sign-up bonus.
How is what I am doing a Pyramid Scam? All we are doing is taking advantage of the obvious holes in the Network Marketing pay plans in order to maximize everyone's financial gain. There are specific reasons that we chose Isagenix as our first company, and those reasons will manifest themselves as time passes.

Let me clarify once again, I'm not trying to be adversarial at all, simply wanting a further explanation.

Anyone that has any involvement in an MLM at all is involved in a pyramid scam. You are even trying to find loop holes in unethical business model to profit even more.
And by the way, in most MLM's policy & procedures, what you have described is called Stacking and Enrollment Manipulation. Both are awful.


Okay...now I understand where the pyramid scam comparison came from.

I have a question regarding this statement: "You are even trying to find loop holes in unethical business model to profit even more."

It seems as though you feel I am doing something wrong/unethical...is that a correct assumption?
If so, I'd like to address it. The fact that MLM's are unethical/scams 99% of the time does not mean that I am.

I think we can all agree that MLM's make a majority of their profits (if not all) from people that join their organization and fail. If everyone were making money, the MLM wouldn't be.

The fact that I am simply trying to help people actually achieve some sort of financial "success" through an unconvential system should prove that. I'm not trying to milk anyone for extra $$$. I'm not even actively selling anyone on joining. Should someone decide to get involved, don't you think they deserve a real chance to at least make their initial investment back - and hopefully more?
The fact that the system may, or, may not be against an MLM's "policy & procedures" (depending on which MLM) doesn't matter because we wouldn't have joined it initially.

What should matter is that the consumer who has paid their hard earned money to join the "opportunity" doesn't get burned. I feel the system we have set up ensures a much higher success rate for everyone involved - except the actual MLM company. What I don't know yet is what that rate is.
In fact, the only person that is working hard right now is me.
Since this is my first foray into this industry I'm not sure what Stacking and Enrollment Manipulation is. Obviously if someone signs-up a new "distributor" on their own that signee goes directly underneath them as usual. Symroi is just a "performance enhancer" if you will. The harder our members work, the more they'll make. The members we sign up for them would then be treated as a bonus

I must admit, I'm a little surprised by the reactions recieved here. I don't mind it at all, it tells me what type of "real world" objections we are going to come across. It's definitely been educational though and I appreciate those that respond - good or bad.

The Founder - Symroi



And I thought you were a total Joke. WOW. You are.




Founder, Speaking for myself, I completely believe that you have sincerely discovered a need and are providing the service. What is not apparent is whether or not you realize the seediness of what you are offering. I don't know you so it would be impossible for me to decide whether or not to feel sorry for you or to loathe you. One thing that I am sure of is that you aren't deceptive at all as far as letting potential customers know what they are getting. The site kind of throws reality of the MLM world into the reader's face. If someone was contemplating joining an MLM and happened upon your site, I think it would definitely raise some healthy questions.

Lady Swisse, Viscountess DeePore


I'm with Cat; I think that you are simply naive rather than detestable here. What you are doing is called stacking. Placing people under other people strategically to maximize bonuses and overrides. It goes against the policies and procedures of every MLM I can think of.

Basically, it seems like you are working on a Matrix system of some sort with regular MLM's rather than the internet only scams.

I would read a lot further into FTC law before moving forward with this. You think that you are helping people and simply saying "up yours" to the MLM company, but if the MLM decides to sue you, or worse, the FTC comes after you, you'd be in trouble. Also, MLM is an unsustainable business platform. Your model is designed to increase saturation and will actually collapse a lot faster than a pyramid following the traditional methods. You are promising more success (also against any P&P), but there will eventually be people at the bottom, no matter what who will make nothing and your pyramid will implode. Only those who made the big bang bucks at the beginning will have anything left to show for it, and that's only if they've invested their profits in traditional investments rather than back into their businesses.

Now my other question is what do people learn about the MLM from joining your site? How do they ever get around to making the required purchases for their monthly volume requirements? You are basically recruiting people blindly, so where does the training come into play to get them to actually perform and work their business?


wow...its just amazing the amount of energy people will put into a SCAM like MLM. Just think, if all that energy was directed to an honest and real, operating business, how much money these people could have made. Instead, they invest in nothing but ideas and hype, and spend so much brainpower rationalizing and twising logic. Its truly amazing. I feel sorry for MLMers who really believe, because they are being sold a message of strength and independence when all they really are is prey for a dressed-up Ponzi scheme. I read the Symroi website, and its so full of double talk and BS it makes my head spin.

Did these people ever take a basic business class in their life? Or even read a book about business? The ignorance required to buy into this crap is all too prevelant in our society, so I guess that is why it continues to live on. There really is a sucker born every minute.


I think this is called "stacking" and is strictly prohibited at Arbonne, where the consultants do not commission based on the numbers of people in their downline.

Each new applicant must select her own sponsor and must complete the Arbonne application herself.


Sorry...I hit the "post" button too quickly. I'm not an Arbonne Consultant, although I do think that the products are excellent. A good friend who is an Area Manager provided me with a copy of the Arbonne Business manual. This kind of fraud is completely prohibited at Arbonne, and the Symroi Founder account would be subject to termination, if they attempted to join Arbonne.
This Symroi Founder violates every article in the Code of Ethics in the Arbonne business manual and should be completely discouraged from having anything to do with Arbonne.


I think you have aligned yourself and the people involved for a serious legal attack on the Symroi web site. You need to pull your site immediately and do some serious research. This site is breaking huge policy and could be a huge target for the FTC since their big kick right now is internet scams. I am only giving you good advice before you find yourself in court or worse, behind bars. Remember we warned you Founder as friends.


Sorry all for not replying earlier, but I was out of town. It's good to see this conversation has expanded a bit!

So far all but a small percentage of the comments have been extremely valuable in some form or another. I will cover the questions asked by CAT and others further into this post, but right now I am looking for some clarification on the FTC issue that was mentioned initially by Lady Swisse.

I will definitely look much further into FTC regulations now that I am aware it could possibly be an issue, and I thank you for bringing it to my attention. The question I have is how could I possibly get into trouble by providing a service that is intended to improve the "performance" of a particular business/service. It would be like getting into trouble for offering premium ink cartridges to improve the end result of a printer on your home computer. It simply doesn't make sense to me.
That's not to say I can't get into trouble, but if I can, that is rediculous. This issue definitely wasn't planned for, and if there is any potential legal hassles, then I will have to completely change the business model.

To answer Lady Swisse's questions...
Without getting into too many "specifics", I can assure you that we aren't blindly recruiting customers. I can't expand on that too much, but a business can't succeed if you aren't able to accurately target potential customers.
Regarding education on the MLM, there is going to be an entire section dedicated to clearly explaining the business model, product line(s), commission structure, etc...
I can guarantee that even the people that aren't using our "service" and are involved with Isagenix will use our site as a resource.
There is going to be forums, newsletters, podcasts, blogs, vidcasts, and many other online training related resources to make sure they know everything necessary to work their business appropriately.
Our site will not be the point of financial exchange for anything. All moneys will be paid directly to Isagenix, we will simply provide an area to do this within our site (a link that pops up the appropriate page on the isagenix site)

Like I said, we aren't taking any money at all. That is one of the reasons I am very skeptical as to the real possibility of any legal problems arising.

Any other questions?

As for those that aren't exactly the most open minded of the group, please note: My business sense, ethics, abilities, etc., aren't what is being discussed here. Instead of trying to get the "witty comment of the day award" in your social circle, maybe you should spend your day doing something a bit more constructive. Just a thought.

To the rest, thanks again for all your input. Please know that it is not going "in one ear and out the next".

The Founder - Symroi


this "founder" scam artist is using this blog for his search engine optimization bullshit - don't encourage him! LOL Don't even read his comments!

As to FightingFatigue's question: I don't think Arbonne has the same return policy as Mary Kay - it seems like a lot of people here are having trouble returning product to Arbonne. Does anyone have the specifics on that? Cat - you tried to return a bunch of RE9 kits didn't you? And they didn't want to send you a check for months or something...? Memory is fuzzy - just want FF to get some help here, rather than spend all our time dicking around with these MLM creeps!!


Thanks, PC. You took the words right out of my mouth. I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but Founder's last email tells me that he/she definitely is aware of what is going on here.....more smoke and mirrors, which is the MLM trademark and lifeline it seems. And here I was feeling sorry for the poor guy/girl thinking that he/she just didn't have a clue.

Eric Cooper

I think that in fact "The Founder" (the name sounds awfully 'Star Trekkish' to me) does NOT have a clue as to the amount of trouble he is about to encounter from Isagenix, Arbonne or any other MLM he tries it with.

To The Founder:
Stop wasting your time trying to promote your "system" on here, because NO ONE is interested (or are you so dense you have not figured that out???). Most MLM companies (including or maybe ESPECIALLY Arbonne) have systems both ethical and unethical that have already been developed and tried by the distributors, especially those at the top of the chain. I can categorically assure you that your sales pitch will fall on deaf ears as just another scam from the outside.

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