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May 10, 2006

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Lady Dacia - Mistress of the Dual-End Applicators

Hey Cassandra - Quit covering your eyes and ears. Wake up and smell the coffee. Hope and redemption are still available to you.

norton_girl

Cassandra--just so you know I did do my due diligence. I gave 5 presentations at my house, I travelled to MN & gave a presentation for 30 people, I travelled to TN & gave a presentation for 11 people & lastly I travelled to Charlotte & did a presentaion for 16 people. I was big 'ol DM girl too. However since my wonderful recognized upline taught me to build a network of consumers that is how I did my biz. I mean if Arbonne thinks they are so fabulous why shouldn't I follow what they teach?!? I don't understand what you mean by saying that home office is trying to do "damage control" because of my upline. Stian Morck has already stated in public documents that Alice Salley putting 4 people on her cc did not warrant her buying her position. If you would please expalin to me what you are talking about. Thanks!

Cassandra

I meant doing due diligence BEFORE signing on... meaning knowing that the only requirement was $29. My "setbacks" keeping me at DM were family related, and NO, not anything having to do with dh, LOL!

norton_girl

Cassandra--when I signed up with 2 of my friends (of 10 yrs) we were brought in by someone my friend had known for 20 yrs (since childhood). We never dreamed that someone would stoop so low to make it in this co. This is what we are all trying to explain to you. This system makes everyone loose all morals and then resort to biblical quotes to hide behind because they have become the scum of the earth. Some people in Nina McCallie's nation actually told me that I was not succeeding because I did not have God in my life & he did not want me to succeed. I mean that's low!!! If that were the case then my 7 yr.old niece would have never got cancer or my brother-in law (her father) wouldn't have died in a tragic motorcycle accident. I am a God fearing person & I pray he takes mercy on their souls!!!

Cassandra

Oh, Tammy, I am totally on your side as far as your upline is concerned... I just wish that you would've had the opportunity to have an upline like mine instead. Do you check your yahoo email? If so, check your email and you'll understand where I am coming from. :)

ripped off reis

Cassandra-

From your comments you seem like a very nice person. Nortongirl became involved with this "gift" of a company through me. My direct upline (sponsor) was a friend of mine since 1993 and her husband has been one of my very best friends since 1984! I was completely screwed, mislead and lied to from this upline. Your upline may not even be aware of all the untruths and lies about this company. You should send them the facts you have learned. It will only help them in the end. I wished to god someone would have lead me to the light so I wouldn't have lost so much time, sleep,money and friendships!

norton_girl

Hey Cassandra, I read the EOA & they sound really nice. I haven't meant them so that's all I can say. However, the fact remains that the executive vice pres. of this co. does no care when these ladies are doing biz this way so to me the whole thing is unethical. If you can't trust the CEO's & such then you can't trust anyone in this biz.

Barbara

In alot of peoples defense: You don't receive the policy and procedures manual until AFTER you have opened your account. That is when I realized that my wonderful upline was responsible for coaching and assistance whether I spent $29 or $2,000. They told me they would not help me with any parties or coaching unless I came in at XXX investment. So, I can completely understand why so many people believed what there sponsors were telling them.

ripped off reis

Barbara,
Why in the world would I ever think a friend of 15+ years would mislead me especially when finances were concerned. You are absolutely right. I got my "start kit" (sounds like an ovulation kit) 4 weeks later . In my network 4 weeks I should have already been DM girl. I was thanks to the misinformation that I gave out was false.Not knowing the information was untrue of course. Some of us have work ethic and understand how the corporate world works. The people in my upline are disgusting and morally contaminated souls. Karma will bite them on the ass in the end. What they are doing and did is WRONG AND IT IS A CRIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Barbara

I am not surprised by the pictures given above. I have believed all along that there was no one lab exclusive to arbonne. I don't think it proves anything as a scam that arbonne rents a space/shares a lab/whatever to formulate there products. Most companies do. It is funny though the little plastic Arbonne sign they put up when RVPs/ NVPs are comin' to town! I wish they would just be more clear about it though instead of not answering questions and calling it the Arbonne Institute of Research and Developement which leads you one to imagine something grand. There are really hurting themselves. Now, if someone can prove that Arbonne's products are not proprietary like they claim, then you have a case.

pinkcadillac

i don't think we have proof that Beaubelle sells the exaact same product as Arbonne, however, the beaubelle packaging looks suspiciously like Arbonnes, and Pierre formulated all of the products for Arval -i think it's obvious...

Cassandra

PC, if you think it's so blatantly obvious, file a report on it. Until it's proved, anything you say is nothing more than mere speculation.

pinkcadillac

Do the products have a list of ingredients on the bottles?
Because all I need to do is order some product from Beaubelle, and have Norton girl check it out -
you game?
:P

Leah

Front: I learned and burned, and now I'm just Burnt

Back: Step Out of the Orange Fog

Front: You can only see the top when you are in the fog

Back: Leave the Orange Fog and rejoin reality

Front: Don't Try, Just Decide!

Back: Step Out of the Orange Fog Now!

The back's are pretty lacking, but it's some stuff to work with.

BTW, what is The Center?

Leah

PC, product ingredients are no problem. They are available on Arbonne's website to any consultant.

Cassandra

PC, nice try. I take it that you aren't confident enough to file a report at this time, but you sure are confident enough to declare a bunch of falsehoods based on nothing but assumptions. lol

annie frannie

First of all, that guy needs a lesson in apostrophes. Whew! I could barely make it through his post. (Are you sure he isn't a former MK consultant, LOL?)
But seriously, guys, have you NEVER heard of companies contracting out R & D? My sister in law is a chemist and she worked for one of the largest personal care product companies in the world. Very few companies do all their own work in their own labs. But they are regulated very stringently. If something says it is proprietary, it better be.
I looked at the Beaubelle things, and they look nothing like the Arb0nne bottles and I couldn't even find any products that seem similar. No self adjusting anything, the aromatherapy is very different, the descriptions and claims are nothing like Arbonne's. Except maybe the botanically based thing. They are marketed only in Asia and the market and standards are completely different there.
The dude's email from Arval is a joke. If you google Arval and P.B.'s name, there are only two matches (other than PC's site and Joel's site) and they were from 2000 and 2002, showing him as a cosigner on adniminstration. I had to translate it from French, but that is as close as it translates. He is not listed on their site ANYWHERE or in any of their references on the web. I believe he may consult or work with them from time to time, but big deal if he does. He has access to the lab and the 'top' chemist to bring the formulations together. He is listed on patent applications along with Arbonne. He would not do that if it was not a specific proprietary formulation.
Arb0nne never claimed he works 'exclusively' for them, but that he heads up a team that creates 'exclusive' products for them. That is a big difference. Beaubelle says about the same thing. It list him as an educational advisor and head of their research team or some such thing.
Basic knowledge of how the industry works would help y'all's understanding that this is not a huge scandal.
I do agree the term AIRD can be misleading, as it IMPLIES an actual building. But it is not a deal breaker for me. I have said before it is more cost effective to rent out space as needs change than have a full running lab staffed full time that they don't need yet.
The company my sis-in-law worked for didn't start out owning half the world like they do now, LOL. But be careful, I have heard they are a satanic company and their logo has a creepy evil symbol in it and they plan to brainwash the world through their products, so we should all boycott them. I got an email about it, so I know it is true! LOL.

pinkcadillac

Annie:
The fact that they paste up a different sign for each company on the front of tha tbuilding, and try to say it's the "headquarters" for their research and development is laughable, ridiculous, and not "standard" business procedure.
I agree that contracting work is no big deal; I also agree that many companies get their research from the same place.
But pleaase - can you just be real here for a moment? I'll never tell anyone that you showed a moment of sanity - I promise.
The reason it is so laughable is because Arval is the company that does all the work - they formulate, arrange product manufacturing, and even do the labeling, etc. So ARVAL is the real company here. They offer the opportunity for MLMs to buy their products from them to distribute - that is not the same thing as Arbonne being its OWN ENTITY. Obviously Arbonne is just an office building in CA which does nothing more than ship product and take in money.

annie frannie

Arbonne does the market research. Arbonne comes up with the concepts. Arbonne makes sure the products are within US guidelines. Arbonne MANUFACTURES the products in California. They are only formulated in Switzerland. Meaning, they do what they have to do to get the products to do what they say they do. On a small level. Then they do further formulating to make sure nothing is lost when they go to large scale production by making some large batches in Switzerland "under the watchful, keen eye of Pierre Bottiglieri, Super Chemist" (can we photoshop a cape and a big C on his chest in those photos, LOL)
Once the product gets where ARbonne gets it, production is moved to California. Arval is a lab, not a distribution company. They provide the option of private labeling products. If we knew where to look, we could probably find photos of the front of that lab with other names on it, too (and I don't mean Pink Caddy's pink concoctions)
I agree it is a little tacky to have a cardboard sign and a cardboard cut out of P.B. in front of it. And, regardless of what Institute means in other languages, in the US, the word implies a big building with a name etched onto the front of it.
The 'telephone' game that happens when consultants latch onto the tidbits of information carefully put out by Arb0nne corporate is unfortunate. The fact is most people don't care about this stuff, so I don't know why it is such a big selling point. There are actually two big name companies in town that make lotions and the like. If you saw the scumville neighborhoods they are located in, would that make you less likely to buy the stuff? Probably not. You buy stuff you like, that works, for a price you are comfortable with. Where it is made usually doesn't enter into the decision making process. So by Arb0nne setting itself up to be superior for this 'swiss' reason, is kind of silly. I have never had anyone tell me that is the reason they bought a product. They buy them because they work, and they like them. I even had someone say they wouldn't care if it was full of baby lamb placentas, if it works, she'll use it. LOL.

Barbara

I don't think the packaging for Beaubelle looks anything like arbonnes. I guess if you really hate arbonne, you can turn anything into what you want it to be. Love you JJ, but you said it yourself that "Oh, I believe it. You know me, I'll believe anything BAD about arbonne!!" Like Annie Frannie said, knowledge of the industry itself sheds alot of light on how products are formulated, tested, and produced.
And, the fact that Pierre is not exclusive only to Arbonne research - duh! Arbonne does not claim that he is; un-imformed or eager consultants do. Arbonne releases only a few new products each year. So, to have one man only work the formulations for a few products released in a years time is rediculous. That is his job to help formulations for many different companies, but that doesn't mean he is given the same formula to every company but with different packaging. Lawsuit?? Again, knowledge of the industry is greatly needed. Arbonne tells "AIRD" - team of chemist - what they want a product to do, and the chemist work the formula to do it. They claim there products are exclusive to arbonne and I believe it. If you can come up with actual proof, not emails, speculations, and emotion, please bring it forth.

You all can have your ralleys with your t-shirts - sidenote- I actually like the idea of "My NVP drives a mercedez and all I got was this lousy t-shirt" - it made me chuckle! Anyways, I don't think you will get anywhere with trying to bring down Arbonne accusing them of scandal from a photo you saw. If you want to save helpless victims from greedy consultants, please stick to the facts. Stick to your personal stories.

norton_girl

Annie, you can defend Arbonne all you want but you're fighting a losing battle on this forum. Anyway, when I first started going to see my upline's business opportunity presesntations (Sibley Gammon for 1 who's husband stalked ripped off reis & me on the phone) used to say that "Arbonne has it's own Research & Development Lab---there are only 2 other co. in the world that have this--Avon & Estee Lauder". I wonder if "clinique" laboratories feel left out?????

pinkcadillac

Annie:
Arbonne does not necessarily manufacture their own products.
http://www.arval.ch/private_label.php3

ARVAL DOES EVERYTHING, and Arbonne just buys the stuff and redistributes it. At least that's the way it appears.

Barbara

Again, assumptions. Arbonne says on its website "formulated in Switzerland, made in the USA."

pinkcadillac

check this out:
http://www.quatloos.com/Tax-Forums/viewtopic.php?t=1004817

again - WOW.

annie frannie

Again, Norton girl, no one is discounting your personal experience, and Barbara even said to stick to your personal stories if you want to help others. Arbonne corporate is very careful to not say anything specific like that. I have heard vague claims that "we spend more on R & D than any other company because we don't have to spend on advertising" stuff like that. But not that we are the only exclusive lab.
By the way, Clinique is part of Estee Lauder. Along with Aveda, Bobbi Brown, MAC, Origins, La Mer, Prescriptives, Bumble + Bumble and more.

There are plenty of companies that have their own R & D labs. I guess your upline doesn't consider Olay to have it's own, since it is under the 'Umbrella' of P & G. But I can assure you, one of my mom's best friends just retired from P & G and he was in charge of the Olay research for many years. When they hit on their anti-aging line, it was huge for them. And I know they do it all in house. They also do Clairol, Cover Girl, Max Factor, and others.
So along with other lies you may have been told, that is flat out wrong.
I wish you luck in your proceedings. I keep hearing from Corporate that they are clamping down on these things, I will be watching intently to see what, if anything happens.

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